Tuesday, March 20, 2007

The Iliad vs. The Mahabharata

The Iliad is a Greek epic poem that was written sometime between the 6th and the 8th centuries B.C. in ancient Greece. The Mahabharata is an ancient epic poem as well, but from India, dating back to the 6th century B.C. Due to the fact that the two were written in separate countries that had minimal or no contact with each other during that period, there are many differences in themes and values within the two stories. However, along with these differences exist numerous similarities as well.

Both The Mahabharata and The Iliad are about wars that started mainly because of kings or princes and their flawed characters. In The Iliad, the Trojan War began because Paris, a prince of Troy, stole King Menelaus’ wife, Helen. However, the war was also driven by the greed of Agamemnon, a powerful and fearsome king. Meanwhile, in The Mahabharata, the war began mostly because of Duryodhana’s jealousy of the Pandavas. The royalty of both stories have flaws in their characters that force their countries and people into war. In conjunction, the two stories both contain important moral lessons. The Iliad demonstrates the negative consequences of greed and selfishness, characteristics of both Paris and Agememnon, while The Mahabharata discourages jealousy, a trait of Duryodhana.

The two stories also possess religious aspects, and stress the importance of listening to and heeding “prophecies”. In both pieces of literatures, a king is informed of a prophecy predicting the destruction that would be caused by one of his sons. In The Iliad, the prophecy was about Paris, and foresaw him as the cause of Troy’s destruction. Meanwhile, in The Mahabharata, it was about Duryodhana. It was foretold that Duryodhana would bring about the destruction of the entire universe. During the times in which these two stories were written, people truly believed in prophecies and their ability to predict the future. Therefore, an intended lesson in both stories could be that it is important to listen to and prophecies. However, another possible message is that being observant and thinking about consequences is crucial; one must always think about one’s actions and their possible impacts on the future, as well as whether they are morally correct.

As mentioned previously, The Mahabharata and The Iliad both possess religious elements. In both stories, religion is very important to the characters, and the people worship multiple Gods. Prior to the wars, Radheya prays to the sun while Briseis prays to the Sun God, Apollo. Moreover, in both, the Gods occasionally interact with the humans. In The Illiad, for example, Achilles is the son of a goddess and a mortal king. When he wants to kill Agamemnon, he is stopped directly by Athena, goddess of war. In The Mahabharata, Radheya is the son of Kunti and the sun (a God). Krishna himself is the Lord of the Universe, and was born in human form to protect the good and “destroy the wicked”. Both pieces of literature contain the idea that multiple Gods exists, and that these Gods care about mankind enough so that they concern themselves with human affairs. In both stories, the Gods favor certain mortals and protect them. Therefore, it is implied that worshipping the Gods and striving to please them is important, and in fact was a tremendous part of the lives of ancient Greeks and Indians. These facts are depicted in both The Mahabharata and The Iliad.

Both The Mahabharata and The Iliad display people as belongings of the king; the king possesses everyone. In the game of dice between Yudhisthira and Duryodhana in The Mahabharata, Yudhistera wagers his four brothers, as well as their wife, Draupadi. They all belong to him since he is the eldest brother and the king, and therefore he cause use them as possessions to bet with. This is very similar to The Iliad and King Agamemnon’s view of his people. Agamemnon arrogantly believes that everyone belongs to him and should obey his every command. This is depicted in his dishonorable treatment of Achilles, his most skillful fighter. Furthermore, both stories present women as prizes that men can do anything they want with. When Duryodhana wins Draupadi in the game of dice, he exclaims, “This is the happiest day of my life, Draupadi is our slave.” In The Iliad, captured women are given to soldiers as prizes for their brave and skilled fighting. For instance, Briseis, a Trojan, is awarded to Achilles during the Trojan War because of his tremendous contributions to the Achaean army.

Another similarity between The Mahabharata and The Iliad is the high esteem in which skilled warriors are held. In both stories, great fighters are respected and honored, and it seems that the ability to fight is one emphasized for men, especially for those of royalty. The Pandavas and Duryodhana are all skillful warriors, as are Hektor, Agamemnon, and Menelaos. Many of these characters are labeled as “the best” in their kingdom for a certain aspect of fighting. It seems that in the ancient Greek and Indian cultures, great emphasis was placed on learning how to fight. Related to this is the “glory” with which war is associated. Bheesma, of The Mahabharata, addresses his troops right before the war, saying “ ‘It is not glorious for a warrior to die in his bed, to die after an illness. A warrior should die only on the battlefield.’” In this story, dying while fighting is depicted as honorable and “glorious”. The same occurs in The Iliad, where Helen is ashamed when Paris doesn’t want to battle in the war. The fact that Paris doesn’t want to fight is viewed as a sign of weakness and cowardliness, two extremely undesirable traits in men. Achilles also seems to possess the opinion that dying in war is the only honorable way to die, since he fights in the Trojan War despite his mother’s prophecy that he would not live to return home.

An interesting similarity between The Mahabharata and The Iliad is that the friendship between Duryodhana and Radheya seems to mirror that of Achilles and Patroklus. In The Iliad, Achilles refuses to fight for the Trojans after he is disgraced by King Agamemnon. However, after his close friend, Patroklus is killed by Hektor, Achilles’ desire for vengeance overpowers his anger at Agamemnon, and he returns to the war to avenge his beloved friend, Radheya. He claims that he cannot live without Radheya, and says all he wants now is death. There are various interpretations of the friendships between these men, some of which hint at them possibly having homosexual relationships. However, the more common interpretation is that they were simply very close friends, and the death of one had a traumatic impact on the other.

Another intriguing similarity between the two stories is the great emphasis placed on the “beautiful women” in them. Both pieces of literature utilize vivid imagery to describe these women, and the women are always called the “most beautiful in the entire kingdom”, or something to that effect. Helen of The Iliad is considered the most beautiful woman in the world, and the Trojan War is in part, fought because of her. In The Mahabharata, Hidimbi, Draupadi, and Subhadra, the wives of various Pandava brothers, are all described as “beautiful” as well. It seems that beauty was highly esteemed in both the ancient Greek and Indian cultures, and stories were written simply to describe the beauty of certain women.

Although The Iliad and The Mahabharata were written and set in vastly different cultures, they share many similarities such as the themes and values they possess. War is considered honorable and glorious, women are possessions, and all-powerful Gods interact with mankind.

24 comments:

~c said...

I really enjoyed reading your paper, it gave new insight into the two different readings. It was really insightful how you made the observation with all the different similarities even though it was written in different times.

Dima Gur said...

Thanks, I'm writing a paper on the iliad and your entery just gave me new ideas for my writing.

Home Food said...

Hi, I enjoyed the blog but think some facts are confusing: Radhyea are you referring to Karna of Mahabharata son on Kunti and Sun God? Also, Duryodhana of Mahabharata and Karna (Radheya) were good friends. But the cause of Karna in fighting the war against his own bloodline (brothers) was not to avenge any killings.

Karna primarily fought the war because he felt deprived, un accepted, insulted as a human. He was an orphan and although everyone knew who his father and mother were yet, Kunti his mother never accepted and gave him the due status as her son. It is more like the story of Cain and Abel, who fought to get due acceptance from God than for any other reasons.

Such fights between blood lines are eternal part of our cultural evolution. Origin of human conflict as per my thoughts, is more because of the sense of deprivation than for any else. From Cain, Karna, Issac, and till today the fight is on. It seems that God's existence is dependent on such fights. One who is blessed will praise God's eternal glory and the one who is deprived will fight for acceptance.

Amar Mendes said...

Achilles and Krishna had a common weak-point; in their foot. Both were killed when a arrow hurt that weak point.
Both the wars were fought in day and war would be called- off at night.

Sourabh said...

There are similarities between two narratives. However Mahabharat is popular because it also contains the knowledge of Bhagwat Geeta - from the God incarnate Krishna Himself. While war is extolled in Mahabharat, it is considered as the last option and entire Geeta knowledge has been used to convince Arjuna to fight. It emphasizes the point that there has to be a well meaning justification for war. And there it takes one to realm of ethics. It would be wrong to say that Mahabharata or Geeta glorifies the War. And Krishna never fought in Mahabharat- he acted only a charioteer of Arjun.

Jyoti Chandra said...

Achilles was a glorified warrior second best to none who had to spend sometime as a woman. The same goes for arjun, a celebrated warrior who spent 1 year as a woman in his agyatwaas.

Pooja said...

I find literally no similarity in these...

It's all just inferred meanings.

Hi said...

the war of Mahabharata occured during 3000-4000BC but Troy war only held around 1200-15BC That is the reason you will decide from this which is best

Hi said...

the war of Mahabharata occured during 3000-4000BC but Troy war only held around 1200-15BC That is the reason you will decide from this which is best

Hi said...

the war of Mahabharata occured during 3000-4000BC but Troy war only held around 1200-15BC That is the reason you will decide from this which is best

Hi said...

Illiad Greek copy of Mahabharata

Joemon Mathai said...

The Mahabharatha is written around 3100 BC where Illiad is dated to 8000 to 6000 BC. No doubt Illiad is written long before Mahabharatha .My opinion is
Instead of which epic is first ,both give an immense pleasure to read the past historic of mankind during those periods mostly the mankind listen and believes in Prophecies...Both are excellent literatures of its own.


Unknown said...

Greeks do not need to copy anything from anybody..
The oldest preserved parts of Mahabharata are not much older than around 400 BCE...The Iliad
dates to the archaic period of Classical Antiquity..
in the 9th century BC,which makes it much older than Mahabharata...if somebody copied anything that would be the Indians and not the Greeks.

Unknown said...

Greek do not need to copy anything from anybody..
The oldest preserved parts of Mahabharata are not much older than around 400 BCE.The Iliad
dates back to the archaic period of Classical Antiquity,
in the 9th century BC,which makes it much older than Mahabharata...if somebody copied anything from anybody that would be the Indians and not the Greeks.

ramesh said...

Ramayana & Mahabharata were written 200AD after development of Devanagari lipi.Copied & modified from Iliad.Sanskrit do not have its own alphabets, Brahmines do not want to use Brahmi, prakriti, Pali & Kharosti lipi.

Suyash said...

Yes i though believed it is a copy of Mahabharata. Mahabharata is very very much old. The government have also said it is older than 10000 years old

Suyash said...

How you can write both are simillar. It is your lack of knowledge. In Mahabharata Lord Sri Krishna gave kauravas enough knowledge and ample chance so they could make ammends with their brother but it was his ignorance so the last chance was war.

This shows god never supported any one mortal. He loved all but it is upto human mind if he accepts the knowledge and becomes spiritual. It doesn't glorify war because war was the only last option.

How can you compare Yuddhistira with a arrogant Aeggemon. Yuddhistira was pious from birth and in his life he never lied. He was reluctant in betting his brother and wife but it Duryodhana and Shakuni who just bent the rules and cofused Yuddhistira. You can't compare him with Aeggemon.

In Sanathana Dharma women were never viewed as properties but worshipped. You have a festival navratri in which worship goddess for 9 days. It was evil minded Duryodhana full of jeaulosy who did that. While Draupadi's bastra haran or when her sari was being removed all cast down their heads except Kauravas. If women were considered property Lord Sri Krishna should not have protected her.

Suyash said...

You don't know about your own countries heritage, history and culture properly. You are brain washed by westerns open your mind.

Suyash said...

It was you westerners who thought intimate freindship between boys as homosexuality. You can't say such things about Duryodhana and Karna.

Mahabharata was not about jealousy it was about the fear which was root cause of every problem. In case of Duryodhana he feared he will lose kingdom and his self respect if he comes in peace with Pandavas.
We don't just worship god to please them. Krishna himself it is wrong in the episode of Govardhana puja.
Our Indian test is all about knowing or experiencing the reality by being spiritual. You westerners can't understand this unless you open your mind. If you don't have time to read Mahabharata see the series it is well potrayed.
I know it is your plan to divert not only the world but also Indians against their culture. Spirituality is a work of thousand years in our country. It was especially after colonisation. We started to see this culture wrongly all because of you.

ramesh said...

Suyash Please don not comment rubbish with out subject knowledge i do not comment.What ever I said for That I have documents material.If you search you will also find it.

Bhuvn said...

ramesh, I think its you who neesd to do a deep study before commenting foul! What makes you feel Mahabharat is written in 400 AD? If you find the evidence of 200 AD, it doesn't merely prove it wasn't in centturies and eras before! You need to understand you are just postulating only on the half baked truths of western histprians, just like or Romila Thappar. Also, by the way Iliad history dating today is between -- 1300 and 1000 BC. So please come up with proof before you confide a belief. The known history says, that Greeks, whether the emissaries or kings wanted to visit India and not the vice-versa. Unless proved Mahabharata remains the oldest historical even recorded, if not the epic.

ramesh said...

Samay thing i can say before commenting on me, you should study it properly remove preoccupied ideas you have, don't make any partiality with the facts like 99.99% Indians did and still doing .I made no partiality with the facts.I can prove every view i put in the comments scientifically not mythologically you people are doing Mahabharata & Ramayana are literally epic or poetry It is not History.

Jb.. said...

The Bhagavat Purana talks of a Yavana king challenging Krishna. Yavanas are Greeks in ancient Indian mythology.

Unknown said...

There was no writing before 4000bc